Op-ed from One-Eyed –
Conceal and Carry and Batman!
Would a ‘Conceal and Carry’ citizen have stopped the Colorado shootings?
It’s easy to look back now at the series of unfortunate events and conclude that if someone in the audience was carrying, they could have likely jumped up and fired upon this man, quickly dissolving the problem.
But what you might not consider, how many people were dressed up? This is a very popular thing to do at movie premiers of which super heroes or other costume clad actors are the stars. Whether its Frodo or Darth Vador as well.
Did this person blend in with other costumed fans? Was it a theater full of villains and super heroes?
Since the gun fire was very rapid, and this person seemed to target nobody in particular but rather random people in the audience while strafing the isles…. it could be easy to determine who the shooter was and therefore it sounds plausible that a ‘conceal and carry’ person could have easily ended the situation.
But now image a single gun shot, lots of people dressed up and franticly moving about. Now say you have four ‘conceal and carry’ persons all try to diffuse the scenario. They could not know for sure who to shoot at, and so now you would have multiple persons shooting at each other, making for a very dangerous and confusing situation. Right?
Now imagine that the police have just walked in. There is only one ‘bad guy’ in this scenario, but the police see five gunmen all firing upon each other. They are trained to quickly take these people out, no questions asked.
How is a member of the audience, who came to see the movie and is probably focused on the screen suppose to diffuse this type of situation? He took a test to handle that weapon, but he is not trained to observe, identify and diffuse this type of threat. All he can do is point and fire at who he assumes is the bad guy.
Remember them scenes from the old movies where the cop would round a corner and find two men standing, both pointing a gun at each other. The cop being confused at who to shoot at, since he didn’t see any prior events, he only heard some shots in the distance and came to assist. And almost at once, each of the two men frantically try to persuade the cop to shoot at “Not me, him!” “No, shoot the other guy, I’m the good guy!”, “Nah uh, I’m the real good guy..!”
Well, its a fifty/fifty chance that things are gonna work out for you.
What if there are two crazed shooters? You don’t know at the time what exactly is going on. Maybe a similar situation happens again, but this time there is not only a shooter walking the isles, but also a shooter who is seated.
Is this man, who just stoop up and is now brandishing a weapon, a ‘conceal and carry hero’ or is he another ‘bad guy’? Who do I shoot at? I suppose you can identify yourself, hopefully quickly and accurately enough to avoid confusion. Still sounds risky though.
I just don’t see how allowing all these ‘Conceal and Carry’ citizens out and about everywhere are really gonna help.
The ‘conceal and carry’ could possibly work best by only having one person in each theater. One designated person so that no confusion could be created.
For example, a security guard. Someone who is trained not only to use but to diffuse. This person is to constantly scan the crowd, not watch the movie.
Besides, adding anymore guns to the mix is just gonna create more chaos and bloodshed.
And what are average citizens doing with assault rifles? Just what can you legally do with these things? Can someone please enlighten me on why we need these? Banana clips or drums?
People want the Right to Bare Arms, but they don’t want to carry around a musket or drag a cannon everywhere, do they?
They want Modern 21st Century Weapon Technology protected by an old, out dated 19th century Bill of Rights.
The Right to Bear Arms? Sure, when there is a Civil War going on, I’d be
happy to hand out MUSKETS to all of our minutemen. But that’s not the case anymore is it?
Can you imagine a ‘shooting spree’ ever taking place if all we had were muskets?
It’s not possible.
Heck, if you think about it, Lincoln being assassinated might just be the first ever ‘movie theater shooting spree.’ I don’t mean to make a joke, but think about it. If Booth had an assault rifle, the headline might have been different.
Lets say for every 100,000 people, there is one nut job with a gun who will shoot
a few people. Now what’s a better idea?
Concentrate on giving those 100,000 people a deadly loaded weapon to carry around everywhere or work on taking away that 1 gun from the nut job??
Giving out hand guns to everyone, to prevent shootings in public places, is like saying we
should put more drivers on the road to look for drunk drivers….in order to prevent
drunk driving related car crashes!!….Wow, What the heck?? Does that make any sense
to you now??
So if we let all these people carry guns around to protect themselves and others from the crazies
at the mall. Then I should be able to protect myself as well……from terrorists. Which is why I
should be able to mount an M-60 machine gun and some anti-aircraft missiles on my car.
I hope I don’t void the automobiles warranty.
This obviously needs to be pointed out…
There are TWO different Davids posting under this story. One is using just David for the name and then there is me, using David McCoy. Let’s try to keep them straight so we don’t have anymore comments like this…
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anonymous
July 23, 2012 at 12:01 pm
David your disclaimer said you would not argue about your opinion so leave matt and his opinion alone.
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My disclaimer remains intact. Please try to pay attention to detail.
BAN semi-automatic guns only !
Guns do not kill people. People kill people !
First and foremost, please note the use of my real name, as requested. Also, I had this all typed out once already and was quite satisfied with it. It took me quite a while to get it just how I wanted it, but when I attempted to post it I received an error message about the captcha code not reading correctly. When I attempted to go back, everything was gone. So, everything below is an attempt to recreate what I had written before. Unfortunately, it is not as good as it was before… I’m tired now and pissed off that I lost all that work (this one was written in MS Word and then pasted into the comment box so I wouldn’t lose it all again!).
I am a CCW permit holder and I do carry a weapon with me about 90% of the time. Two years ago I didn’t give gun ownership much thought, but with the increase in violence and criminal activity in my neighborhood, the increase of crime everywhere, and a couple of threats to my life and safety of my family by a couple unsavory individuals (whom shall remain nameless) for utterly ridiculous reasons, persuaded me to exercise my 2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms.
So, over the past few days since this shooting, I have thought about the situation and how I feel I would have reacted. I have read many, many responses to that question and had many personal conversations about it. I can honestly say that I believe no one will ever be able to tell you how they would react until they have lived that type of situation.
I can honestly tell you that, had I been in that theater and armed (despite the fact that the theater was a posted no weapons zone) when this senseless attach occurred, I mostly likely would NOT have been leaping rows of seats and scattered bodies in an attempt to put a slug into the attacker’s melon. No, I am certain I would have been crouched on the floor, shielding the bodies of my family with my own. Would I have had my weapon drawn and ready for use? Most definitely. I have proven to myself that I will, in the face of reasonable threat to my own life, or that of my family, protect it with reasonable force. I have had to draw my weapon once since I began carrying it. I felt that my wife and I were at serious risk. I believe that the presence of my weapon and my willingness to present it diffused the situation. I will not go into details about the situation, as I do not wish to make my identity known to the person(s). Suffice it to say that my night ended peacefully, albeit a little shaken. I hope I do not ever have to do that again. I do not like the feelings it left me with, nor do I care for the feelings it evoked in my wife. No one should have to live in fear of walking down the street in their own neighborhood.
I see a lot of people going on and on about more gun laws and banning all weapons. This will not solve the problem. When you take away the guns and make owning one a crime, then only criminals and government (I know, synonymous) will have guns. Where will that leave the average law abiding citizen? We will be at the mercy of criminals and government. I would love to know, at what point in our history, the people decided that our roles should be reversed; the government should fear it’s people, not the vice versa. The government is supposed to work for us, not control us. As it is, the U.N. Small Arms Treaty is shaping up to disarm the law abiding citizens of America. Couple that with this wonderful new RFID chip implant idea that (y)our government wants to implement and we will all be lemmings in no time.
As much as I could continue on about the gun issue, I do not believe that I can do it any better justice than what I found in one article online, written by Maj. L. Caudill, USMC (Ret.). Please see the following link to my Facebook profile where I have his article saved as a note. I have it set to public so everyone should be able to view it.
https://www.facebook.com/notes/david-mccoy/the-best-pro-gun-argument/10150319035715295
DISCLAIMER: Please note that everything above is MY OPINION, and therefore, not open for debate. I am entitled to my opinion as you are entitled to yours. I will not engage in an argument where we attempt to change each other’s minds about our stance on this subject. You will either agree with me or agree to disagree with me.
” Would a ‘Conceal and Carry’ citizen have stopped the Colorado shootings?”
In this case? Not a chance. Dark theater with gas in the air released from canisters. Too many subjects, not enough certainty as to which one was the shooter.
Even the Police involved would ( and did ) have a hard time. But they were in a different mode……save as many lives as they could, and not getting shot themselves. They walked into a dark theater not exactly sure what they would find.
If the professionals were perplexed, an average citizen would be moreso.
“I hope I don’t void the automobiles warranty.”
As long as you don’t talk to your car, everything will be ok.
How do I figure that a concealed weapon puts more people in danger? Umm, let me think, because it’s not a concealed twisler, it’s a weapon!! Last time I checked more than 80 Americans a day are killed by firearms. That’s over 7 of these Colorado shootings every day!! Statistically the people you love are much more likely to be killed by your gun than any criminal.
I know having a gun makes people “feel” more safe and secure. I understand, logic and reason are the enemies of emotion and satisfaction, but that doesn’t mean they’re wrong.
By the way, I’m sick and tired of defending myself against people without the courage of their convictions! I never have and never will post here or anywhere else without attatching my name to it, without authorship there is no authenticity. Please quit hiding behind screen names and put yourself out there as a true member of the community. Let your voice be heard, I’m sick and tired of the tough guys with racist, homophobic and plain old riduclous ideas here not being held accountable. That especially goes for you Dick Knight, I thought you were stronger than that and I know you’re in no danger of losing your job.
I’m not an idiot, I know folks won’t submit their names because of this, I’m just hoping anyone who has read this feels a little shame every time they don’t.
As far as Switzerland goes, every male is required to serve in the military, usually at age 20, they are issued a weapon and they take it home is my understanding. On top of that, the Swiss have a homogonous society with a strong economy. People who feel like they have something to lose usually don’t go on shooting sprees.
Who is the last married man with kids you remember hearing about going on a shooting spree or blowing up a business with a bomb vest. Conceal Carry puts more people in LIFE THREATENING danger than it protects. If everyone having the ability to defend themselves is such a great idea, why don’t we just let Iran have nukes? I mean if we all have the capability to kill in an instant it’ll make the criminals (Iran) think twice before doing anyting criminal right?
I’ve read about a couple of dozen similar essays (pro/con) about CC people and how they would’ve taken out the perp. In none of these diatribes did they mention that Holmes was wearing body armor and a helmet! If you remember the two bank robbers in North Hollywood, they stayed on their feet a long time even though they were being targeted by dozens and dozens of trained police officers. The police had to break into a nearby gun shop and procure heavier caliber rifles to put them down.
This was a darken movie theatre in a full state of panic. Let say you did squeeze off a round. You would have likely targeted the center body mass to no affect. Your muzzle flash has now given away your position. Holmes also used a rifle w/scope and you now have the cross hairs on your forehead. Lights out.
Unless you are a highly trained person with intense combat experience, you would only exacerbate an already highly chaotic situation. You endanger yourself and those around you. Little would have changed by someone who main experience is shooting beer cans and pop bottles in a gravel pit.
A few people have made references to Switzerland and basically how everyone has a gun and gun crime is almost nil.
I find that very interesting.
This is what I like to see for comments. A good structured argument with ideas and facts being exchanged back and forth, rather than a pissing contest filled with name calling and personal attacks.
We should all act mature if we think we are all mature enough to carry weapons, right?
Just wanted to point out that Switzerland is a very rich country and they don’t have all the drug problems that America does.
Plus all the men are required to have military training from ages 21-32.
I dont think that those few things make all the difference, but still interesting none the less.
At least we know they have the proper training to use those weapons.
After reading Peter Ls 10:35 post, I have another thought. Maybe on the front door of the theater there is a sign that says, No Guns Allowed. Now that will/should, cause all law abiding citizens to leave their guns at home if their going to this theater. So, can you guess who is not going to obey the sign…
Thanks to One Eyed for writing this thought stream out in a very competent and compelling manner. It was virtually the 2nd thing I thought of after this news story broke: Where are the conceal and carry people to stop their fantasy scenario? Out of a packed movie theater in Denver area NO ONE, legal or illegal had a gun on their person? You see, this theater shooting is what ultimately debunks the conceal and carry argument. There’s just not enough time to react to shock, awe, and pandemonium, not to mention rounds flying in the air at you!
Everyone on NIT should feel grateful that a new, very skilled and intelligent writer has emerged. I only returned on here because One-Eyed is worth responding to. He still has my open invite to join up at the revolution as well (not trying to steal NIT’s thunder-just want a tour de force of powerful writers and thinkers condensed in one home).
This man was extremely smart (James Holmes) and as ONe Eyed writes about, picking a Batman premier with costumes and dramatics was very diabolically genius.
Here though is where I diverge. I agree with Trucker Dave, knowing that many people out there conceal and carry, could have thwarted this cowardly little punk from assaulting a bunch of innocents. HOwever, knowing this demonic coward, he would have turned to even more innocent venues like daycares and schools.
I’ve argued this with My Voice as well: Putting more conceal and carries out on the street will only increase the amount of impulse crimes committed. The balance will tip and you’ll have to account for that death toll wise. Is 12 people in a theater by a lone gunman worse than 1200 extras from road rage and people pissed off for a moment while drunk with a weapon?
Education and training is key, but as animals cannot help themselves when they engage in defensive or offensive postures, humans too from time to time will flare up. Impulse training is key.
Wasn’t it Ronny Reagan who subscribed to “Peace thru superior Firepower”?
There’s elements of truth in that. But the peace won’t last long, and ultimately humans will want to duke it out, with more wild west bullets flying rather than fists and knuckles.
Great Job One-Eyed (penis is what I was thinking of too! lol)
So is my CCW permit and trusty sidearm supposed to give me super powers? Does it make me a citizen police person? Am I OBLIGATED to “fight crime and injustice battle evil-doers” whenever I see it? No.
You can make up any story or situation to fit your idea. Evidentally you don’t care much for guns, so you make up a story where in the end, legally carrying persons shoot it out with each other.
Silly really.
Yes, one legally carrying person could have helped end that disaster. That young man snapped, we may never know why.
As for assault weapons, very few civillians own one. Now there are some who own semi automatic weapons that look like assault weapons which a perfectly legal to own, but there full automatic versions are owned by the millitary an law enforcement. A few individuals will spend the money to get permits and pay the taxes to ownd an assualt rifle but not very many.
It’s been said “ban all guns, everyone will be safe then”! In a perfect world yes. We don’t live in a perfect world. Criminals will build them, buy them from the black market or never turn them in. They will switch to explosives er chemicals to do there mass killings with. There is always a way to kill someone if you choose to do so, the method or weapon being the only difference.
Law enforcement cannot be all places at all times, so I choose to protect myself. You can choose to do the same or rely on someone else for your safety. That choice is yours guranteed by the constituion, so is gun ownership. Lets keep both shall we?
One-eyed…you will NEVER understand will you. You have no clue and probably never will. I’ll just post this link for the others that CAN understand…
http://iowarevolution.com/topic/why-i-support-the-2nd-ammendment
And as far as the assault rifle…i own one BECAUSE I CAN, BECAUSE I WANT TO, and I kill coyotes with it. AND I WOULD CARRY AROUND A CANNON. Mounted to my truck if i could get away with it.
Quite a story, or maybe a rant. People with this kind of potential are walking among us daily. One could say that this killer, was, a law abiding citizen, until. How do you stop this kind of thing from happening, short of outlawing all guns. When that happens, we become the sheep of the federal government. The federal government fears us now, because we can stand up to them. Without guns we can’t. I’m wondering if One-Eyed is Michael Bloomberg or maybe Nancy Pelosi.
Back in the late 80’s I was living in Az where it was legal to carry in the open, 2 times I walked in on an armed robbery and was able to stop it. I was at a sports bar with a couple friends, a city cop and a state patrol, we were watching the vikings beat the cardnals when 2 guys came in and try to rob the place. Before you know it over a dozen civillians had their weapons out pointed at these scumbags. I didn’t have mine with me because my friends picked me up in front of my church as I was coming out so I was unarmed, lesson learned.
You can do all the imaginary scenes you want and fantasize anything you want to fit your personal viewpoint which is what the author has done. It does not change the reality that people have the right under our constitution to protect themselves. Another way this could have went down is a person who was trained and licensed to carry could have recognized the danger and with on shot put down the crazy person and saved eleven lives and the agony of the fifty other people. I like that thought much better.
Faye I have made delivery to several Home Depot stores in the Chicago area that have a armed guard in the power tool cage section.
the idea of the CC is self protection, not replace the police. If he comes after you, shoot, don’t go after him. I know I have no way the training or skill of a PD officer.
Very interesting thought process. First of all, I want to make it clear I don’t own so much as a cap-gun. No need for one in the way I live my life.
Nicely thought out, and I recognize exploring all thoughts would take up something a few pages short of “War and Peace” – pun intended.
One branch of thought you didn’t recognize is the preventative thoughts of bad-doers. I ask you to put yourself in the bad-actor’s shoes for a second. You’re wanting to do this mass shooting for whatever reason. But you also know you need to survive for a few minutes while you shoot. Where are you going to go to do this?
The potential audience – no pun intended – and targets would be the first thing you need to examine. Who are you wanting to hurt? Are they moving, making a harder target? Had the shooter known there is a high percentage of CC permit holders in town – perhaps in the parking lot, the lobby or the theater itself, a better, more vulnerable target area would be sought out.
But then, who in their right mind would spend three weeks booby-trapping their home, set loud music on a loop, leaving their front door unlocked, and go on a shooting spree?
Just sayin’
Having armed security guards will probably become a reality at theaters, malls, McDonalds and all the places people gather. The crazies are everywhere.